What Is BroScience?
According to the urban dictionary…
Broscience is the predominant brand of reasoning in bodybuilding circles where the anecdotal reports of jacked dudes are considered more credible than scientific research.
If you have spent anytime following the online bodybuilding and fitness guys, reading the forums, reading the YouTube comments, and all that stuff then I’m sure you’ve heard and maybe even used the term “BroScience”.
Now most people shoot down “BroScience” and use the term in a negative way. But ultimately I don’t believe that anything or method is “right” or “wrong”. It all depends on the particular situation and context in which it is used. When you break it down, BroScience is just another way of saying real world experience.
A lot of guys get their panties in a knot and get wrapped up in heated debates over BroScience VS. Real Science or laboratory studies. I think it’s a bloody waste of time myself because when it comes to building muscle, losing fat, and getting in your best shape the focus needs to be on what works best for YOU in the real world.
Yes, scientific lab studies can help point us in the right direction and answer a lot of questions. But what really matters the most is real world results.
Just because something makes sense on paper doesn’t always mean that it will translate into more muscle and less fat on your body. And on the flip side, sometimes you may do something diet and training wise that makes no sense from a scientific stand point, yet it works for YOU and you’ve gotten solid results from doing it. Does that mean you should stop doing what works because you can’t prove it on paper in a formal research study? Hell no, do what works in the real world!
BroScience VS. Real Science
It’s like comparing the doers and the thinkers…
It is certainly good to do your research and think things through, but you need to realize that results only come when you get off your ass and start doing something.
This is a story that I got from the Urban Dictionary which gives a good overall explanation of this concept…
Professor Shnootgarten: What are you drinking there?
Tommy: Just a protein shake with some carbs; I need to get my 350 grams daily.
Professor Shnootgarten: According to the 30 pubmed studies that I’ve downloaded, any amount greater than 22.341 grams of protein post workout is superfluous for greater protein synthesis. Additionally, insulin spiking, if that’s your intended objective, is neither necessary nor helpful toward replenishing glycogen stores unless, of course, your focus is high rep, time under tension endurance tolerance rather than maximal load, low rep hypertrophy stimulation.
Tommy: Dude, over the last 8 years, I’ve gone from a 148 pound weakling to a 220 pound beast doing the same stuff that worked for my dad, and you’re a buck fifteen and have never actually seen the inside of a gym.
Professor Shnootgarten: Well, according to last year’s in-vitro study of skeletal-muscle glycogen phosphorylase done at the University of Stuttgart School of Bio-Organic Chemistry Deluxe…
Tommy: Spare me the science lesson Mr. Wizard; you’ll change your mind next week when new studies reveal the opposite conclusions. You can take your research and your weak pale self, and I’ll take the 500+lb.deadlift that I got with hard work and a little help from broscience.
Real World Example…
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To give you a real world example of this. I remember watching a strength training seminar by Dave Tate from Elite FTS. And Dave told the story of how he was powerlifting in college and after several years of training he hit a major plateau and he couldn’t get out of this training rut.
He was desperate to find a solution and resorted to reading numerous books on strength training and seeking advice from his professors and kinesiology guys at school. And basically they told him that he had reached his “genetic limit” and that further strength gains were impossible. |
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Long story short…
He ended up training at West Side Barbell with the “Dump Truck Boys” as he referred to them. Note: this was before the days of the Internet and the term BroScience wasn’t around then. But I’m sure it meant the same thing.
Dave found that the guys who trained in these hardcore dungeon gyms and moved a shit load of weight while pushing each other to constantly improve made the best gains. These guys didn’t worry about what the dude in the lab coat thought was possible or impossible. Or what the fitness experts considered right or wrong. They basically did what worked form them and as a result created some of the biggest and strongest human beings on the planet.
Conclusion…
So the moral of the story is that yes science will lay the foundation for all the muscle building and strength training information that’s out there. However, actually realizing your bodybuilding and fitness goals ultimately comes down to doing what works for people in the real world. And with all the buzz words that are floating around on the Internet today, this is often referred to as “BroScience”.
Now I realize that with this blog post I’ve probably opened up a can of worms. Some people are going to love it and agree with me. Others are going to think I’m an F-ing idiot and hate my guts, but that’s ok, the world will keep on spinning.
I’d love to hear your feedback on this topic. So please feel free to post your comments about Science VS. BroScience and what has worked the best for YOU.
I’ll chat to you in the comments below 😉
30 Comments
Curtis Uyeda
After I graduated the Sheriff’s Academy, I started working the jails. I quit working out and gained weight. Walking through the compound became a chore so I started working out with weights. On a training day, a nutritionist gave a lecture about the evils of red meat and the benefits if carbohydrates. I would eat rice with tuna (packed in water) or chicken breast (no skin). After a year, I lost so much weight, I had to buy new uniforms. When I went out on patrol, I was down to the last notch on my “sam brown”, so I started eating candy bars and hot dogs to keep the weight I had.
Now, everyone talks about the evils of carbs, but the most weight I’ve lost has been with a high carb diet. I work out 5 days a week, doing cardio and weight lifting each day, resting on weekends. Next week, I’m going to try weights on Mon, Wed and Fri and doing cardio on Tue and Thur. Just to see how that works.
Dustin
If we follow what works and trash what doesn’t, that’s doing science too. Just not the kind that requires a lab-coat.
That being said, if many actual science studies point in the same direction, it’s probably something worth listening to, or trying 🙂
sixtysomething
Lee,
As you have broken down in the past, we are all different. Some of us can build upper body much easier than others. The same folks may have major difficulties building their legs.
That is where the training methods begin.
From reading your story “noodle arms” I rest my case.
We must appreciate the science and research and then be able to apply that good information to our individual growth patterns.
My arms & chest are easy, legs are more difficult, abdominals almost impossible. the solution is to focus on the imposssible.
I believe you are the BroScience Master and truly appreciate your work along with your sharing of your research.
Thanks
ralph
great talk, you are absolutely right, the big problem with scientific studies now is that they are required by law to be politically correct. God bless…
shaun
No offence, I like you an all, but a lot of what you preach is bro science. Eat every 3 hours being the prime example of mythical bodybuilding dogma.
Sean
Hey Lee,
I am all for scientific research AND BroScience when they are genuine and honest. With big corporations backing research these days, even in the universities, science is not necessarily science. However, in the gym, I find nearly all the guys to be honest. I don’t see research and BroScience as necessarily mutual exclusive. It’s all hit and miss, trial and error, taking a little bit from that person and some other things from another person – and that goes for the research and products, too. I never heard of BroScience until your blog article but I’m an old guy. However, I do know this as a man, we need more BroScience in all aspects of our lives.
Sean
Chris Brynner
The immensely commercialized fitness/bodybuilding industry touts pseudo-science to appear as though they know something other people don’t. That way there’s a motivation for people to buy their magazines, books, supplements, etc, so they’ll have access to all this “advanced” knowledge. In reality, there isn’t a shred of credible scientific evidence to support 99% of what they say and sell… it doesn’t really matter as long as people are stupid enough to fall for it and pay for it (and then take up the torch and repeat it themselves).
Scott Tousignant
The best science experiment of all is our own personal journey. That’s why it’s so important to journal our experience and progress… to see what works for us personally and what doesn’t.
Yes, much of what we do and preach is broscience. Bodybuilders sharing what “works for us”. It may not work for you, but it’s worth trying and putting to the test on yourself.
With all of the workout programs in the marketplace have any of them been put through an actual lab experiment and put up against a “control” workout? Maybe components of their programs have been studied in a lab, but not a complete workout. That would make every workout program based largely on “broscience”.
And even if a study proved that there was a “best workout program”, that program would only be good for so long before our body adapted to it.
Research is now just catching up with what bodybuilders have been saying for decades. It’s because of a bodybuilders willingness to experiment with new things that scientists say, “Hey, maybe we should study that.”
Unfortunately, many people who bash broscience and use studies to market their own programs, have cherry picked data and misinterpretted it in an effort to make themselves sound smarter and to mislead you into thinking that their program is more valid.
Thanks for the great post Lee and for your willingness to put yourself up to criticism.
leehayward
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No offense taken, but do you realize how many bodybuilders have gotten great gains by eating every 3 hours (myself included) so regardless of what anyone says, it does work for some people. Now if you can somehow get away with eating 1 meal a day or 2 meals a day or whatever and that helps you get bigger leaner and more muscular, then go for it.
leehayward
Thanks for the comments guys, they are much appreciated. Keep em coming 😉
ahad
lee you are right.Real things are learned through experience.very deep knowledge confuses too.drawing things on board earns nothing but what u learn through practice matters alot.
michael iantorno
I agree with what you are saying lee, if it ain,t broke don,t fix it, there are times when i follow what is written, and times when i swim against the tide, that,s just how it is.
David A. Lockhart
Well said. So often, folks who are eager to try new things, perhaps for the sake of learning and/or change alone, are described as not knowing what they’re doing or not being committed to something. And yes, such ignorant–maybe not stupid, but certainly ignorant–criticisms are frequently tossed around by “experts” who haven’t done anything but read and regurgitate the orthodoxy du joire (sp?).
I’m to the point where I say, “Interesting. I’ll think about that,” and pointedly turn, walk away, and don’t respond to what I might hear over my shoulder. Not because someone doesn’t agree with me, but because I’m expected to accept what I’m being told while the other person won’t even listen or let me speak. And you know, that’s fun!
David A. Lockhart
Scott Tousignant,
Brilliant! You stated what I was trying to say much better than me. And that’s OK.
David A. Lockhart
Randall Mazzone
Absolutely! Do what works, which is really just listening to your body and doing what you feel. You see so many people at the gym hung up on numbers. Number of sets or number of reps. How many times do you see a guy stop just because he got to 10 reps on something? People always come up to you while waiting for equipment. “hey man how many sets you got left?” How many sets do I have left? As many as I want. Until I am done. There is no number. I am going to do what I feel. When I feel tired I will stop.
Leon
Totally agree. What works on paper doesnt always work in real life- i did a lot of chest programs and the the i got best results from? PUSHUPS. not hypertrophy low rep training but high rep, more endurnace type of training. I got 119 chest even though i am not bodybuilder.
Science is basically funded by big fat corporations that only want to suck all the money.
Check Brad Pilons book How mUch Protien and you will see how the industry is doing “science” with 70 y.o seniors and give them little protein AND THEN SOMEHOW reach do conclusion we need 2.2 gram of protein per Kg or our body weight.
ANYWAY too much funded bullshit in the internet i trust only THose who dont promote their special FORMULAS or amino acids or LIVER TABLETS or Jack3d(which in the end is ACIDIC) and many more products like in BB.com that say lot of shit and science talk and then found guilty by FDA of containing anabolic steroids(and thats without the user knowing right?)
harold
leehayward,
cant argue with that lee!
leehayward
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LOL I hate it when that happens. Thankfully I can usually schedule my workouts when the gym isn’t very crowded and I don’t have to deal with people trying to but in and interrupt my workouts.
leehayward
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I agree with you there, even though many don’t consider push ups a muscle building exercise, I’ve gotten some of my best chest growth from high rep sets of push ups.
Irfan
Hello Mister Lee, i have a question i have started going to gym since last 1 and a half month about 40 days, my body is changed but the problem is i cannot eat much. i am using weight gainer (serious mass), i do workout for about 30-40 mins and my weight is 60kg and i am 6 feet, can you tell me will it work high weight and low reps for me. Thanks
Irfan
While looking at your picture back in 1990,s my body type is just the way you look like in 90,s, i need your help. Thanks
Mike
Ive been doing this for 37 years and these students of science fail to realize that we have been using each other as lab rats forever. What works has been used and tried by hundreds if not thousands while what has been discounted has also been discounted by us lab rats also because it is not as effective. Ive been to college thinking that I was going to hear some new ground breaking info and ended up listening to the same BS that was illustrated in the blog and ended up dropping out because of the garbage they were spitting out to these students. Most of them have never lifted a weight outside of PE class, but now consider themselves experts. I train Football players and Strength athletes to be earth movers and it keeps falling back onto proven methods that were pioneered in the gyms over decades of sweat and blood.
Semper Fi Brother
A.B
Although I’d go for Broscience over Science simply for I’m a big believer in real life experience and results. However, I think that Broscience gets bad mouthed because of those “bros” who spread their own same “methods” to any and everyone. I have no doubt about the bros’ good intention, passion and love to share their own experience, however what they should consider is that an experience just does not simply work out the same way with everybody else, I believe.
leehayward
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I offer personalized coaching through the Total Fitness Bodybuilding Inner Circle Program at:
http://www.TotalFitnessBodybuilding.com
boomerangg
Lee I have read all of your blogs/articles/posts or whatever over the last four years, and, although a writer you’re not, still you bring alot of good solid information to the public. Unfortunately I don’t believe this post fits into that category. At age 57 I have only been in the gym 5 hrs/wk for 8 yrs. and reading nutrition for 5 yrs. so I usually will defer to your’s, and some other’s expertise. Although I agree that there is an inevitable difference between the real world and the lab we must strive to push people towards scientific based information. I do not disagree with the idea that we cannot refute real world results, but broscience advice from whom? Most guys I know in the gym have no idea what they are doing. Some get strong without even decent nutrition. Others just hurt themselves over time using broscience. Remember broscience for most doesn’t come from Dave Tate, it comes from Bill. Bill was at the gym everyday at the same time I was. He was built and had been there 17 years. Lots of guys took advise from him. What those guys didn’t know was that Bill was in pain everyday/night and his shoulder kept him awake. Although Bill at age 49 had long past the time where he should have moved away from using a pronated grip, there he was still doing incline press on the Smith machine. He was hard core, old school and real down on reading anything written by a science geek as he called them. We want to look like Bill just not feel like Bill. This post, and the silly example used here about the scientist who weighed 115 and had never been in a gym, will drive guys away from science(why didn’t the post use, for example, Monica Molique as the scientist? because it would be difficult to make your point if you did). Please promote the marriage of science and real world experience as the dynamic duo of theory and practice. Thank you for hearing my meager opinion Lee. Respect.
boomerangg
boomerangg
Lee, still waiting for your response to my comment 8 days ago. There is alot of Broscience guys at my gym and it drives me crazy. You hear the cliche ‘go heavy or go home’ alot. I’m sure I’m not the only one who must endure these meatheaded, more braun than brains, type of comment. Please take this opportunity to set the record straight and show young lifters how scientific research has helped spur on your own developement (ie periodization, energy systems, nutrition). Please help young men use scientific knowledge and help them stop using outdated cliches and practices. John Berardi has done this on the nutrition side. Try waving the Broscience flag in discussion with someone like him. Berardi is about results, and uses science/psychology to get his clients there, not Broscience. No disrespect intended but please support what you post by responding. Losing faith.
leehayward
boomerangg,
Hey boomerangg,
Sorry for not replying to your post, I did read the original post when you posted it, but I never responded because you never really asked me a question. I try my best to read and reply to questions, etc. but sometimes I miss a few as in this case. With hundreds of blog posts, hundreds of youtube videos, etc. which people can comment it’s hard for me to keep up with them all.
But if you would like to have me work with you personally and coach you directly I offer this service through my Inner Circle Coaching Club at:
http://www.TotalFitnessBodybuilding.com
What ever the "HECK" you wanna do!
Curtis Uyeda,
Same. Carbs have never been my enemy. 100% glucose carbs are very benicial without the “bad” results(scientific). Even fructose and sucrose never affected me badly(Personal broscienceEXP). I only ever put on unwanted fat when trying to bulk with 1000 calories or more whether bad food or good food and trying to eat every 2-3 hours(science but doesn’t work for me, BroscienceEXP). Doing what every I wanted based on what was working for me(no roids) through trial and error got me jacked n ripped.
What ever the "HECK" you wanna do!
I really like the way you worded this article Lee. Props to you bro.
With that being saids here’s my experience on how I got the body that I dreamed of and am satisfied with(Jacked n ripped) for the rest of my life:
I use to tell people how it should be done by science standards. I had a decent build but looking back it wasn’t anything that gave me any right to tell people how to do it or even to follow my example. I learned what I thought to be the miracle from Vince Delmonte in all the advice he gave on how to do it. All it was was a new way to train to get “max results”(Giant Sets and Crash Sets), “eat every 2-3 hours always!”, and a “massive caloric surplus knowing that you will put on some fat but you’ll get rid of it when you cut and can accumulate “””””35-50lbs of muscle in a whole year””””””. My experience was this, I adapted to his training style and made gains in strength. Thats the only positive and thats nothing special cause that should be expected in and program with progressive overload. I gained 32lbs and lost it when I cut with no new definition. Not even slight muscle increase. I know the program was designed for skinny guys to pack on muscle and quick. And I wasn’t skinny. So technically it wasn’t design for me. But that doesn’t mean there wasn’t more room for me to pack more muscle and Vince did say that its what he did to get to the point hes at so that should be good for anyone. But………..I just gained fat.
With that end year disappointment I decided not to care and do what ever my favorite I could find out there was and check many diet styles and how many other do it. What worked for me?
Drop sets n pyramids(old school); intermittent fasting or warrior dieting(both go against the eating every 2-3 hour rules and against a lot of science but it worked for me) depending on what I wanted to do that day; get my daily nutrition or more eating what ever I want; ate however much protein I wanted not even doing 1 lbs of protein per body weight(gained decent mass and had plenty of increased muscle definition doing high carbs n 80g(ranging) of protein in a 2 week training period; train anywhere from 10mins-1 hour 5 days a week depending on how I felt during the day(but always tried lifting heavier even if it was a 10min workout); hit every muscle twice within a ‘7 day period’ to increase protein synthesis better(worked for me, ain’t BS for my body but maybe someone else); No isolations ie bicep curls(Biceps became bigger doing nothing but pulling and visa versa for every muscle of my 3 compound motions, push, pull, Squat/deadlift); Only ate food; no protein powders creatine, ect…………: only supplements were caffine pill, raspberry keytones, green coffee bean extra, and 3 multivitamins from ‘mens progressive'(which combined with intermittent fasting and warrior dieting was amazing for packing on muscle and staying ripped even if i was getting a massive surplus of fast food); and…………………..I don’t believe I’m missing anything. I just keep doing with no goals in mind and I’m very satisfied. Although I feel like Goji berries have really helped too. I will eat them everyday consuming how ever many calories I want worth of them in addition to anything else I want ie mcdonalds lol.
This worked/works for me. Not saying it will work for someone else. I guess what it also comes down to is not caring about how I did/do it to try to transform my body and living my life the way I want too got rid of a lot of stress which could also have contributed to my results. It certainly didn’t help doing the way someone else does it or the way someone else tells others how to do it to get the best results.
At the end of the Day, do what ever the heck you want to do ans long as it works for you.
P.S. you should do a colab with the hodge twins. 🙂